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Q 7

Last post Tue, May 3 2011 9:26 PM by Alain. 6 replies.
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  • Tue, Jun 1 2010 12:58 PM

    I post the BB. Two middle position limpers, button limps, SB folds, I happily check with Qd 7c. Once again I know nothing much about the players except from the three hands I saw prior to posting the game seems to be fairly tight.

    The flop comes

    Qs 6d 4s

    giving me top pair terrible kicker. Since there are only three other players in, the flop contains some drawing possibilities (plus an ace or king could come on the turn) thus giving a free card could be dangerous, and no one showed any strength preflop I go ahead and bet. I am called immediately to my left and then the next guy raises. The button folds and it's up to me.

    I consider my options more carefully than usual. I figure maybe the caller limped in with some kind of medium connector. If he had a queen he surely would've raised me. But if he's on a draw why raise the other two guys out? So I'm pretty confident that the caller is drawing.

    As for the raiser, he might also be on a draw and is trying for a free card since the button may fold anyway. Or he might have something like A6 and is trying to find out if his middle pair is any good. Or he might simply have a hand that beats mine like QJ.

    Considering all, well at least most of, the possibilities I decide to threebet and check the turn. I might move the raiser off a middle pair, especially since a third player is in the pot who might also have something as well. Maybe I can even move him off something like Q8s or Q9 if he's real dumb or is the type that plays by feel and doesn't consider the pot odds he is getting. If the raiser calls I put him on either a draw or a hand that beats me. (If he 4-bets I'll just call.)

    So then after 3betting I'll check the turn, intending to fold if he bets. No way he bets again with just sixes or a medium pocket pair like 88 since he's gotta figure me for at least queens. On the other hand, if he checks behind I intend to check the river also to try and snap off a bluff.

    Anyway after I threebet the guy in the middle calls the two cold (confirming to me that he is on a draw) and the other guy just calls. The turn comes a Kh. I check, the next guy checks, and the third guy bets. I fold.

    All comments are greatly appreciated. Could I have played it better? Should I have just called him down? I felt like I played the hand well but it's still nagging me. Incidently I think that if I had paired any other rank (aces, kings, jacks or lower) my flop play would have been much easier to figure out. Sorry to be so long-winded in this post but maybe you guys can point out flaws in my thinking that could be affecting me in other areas of my game. Thanks in advance

  • Tue, Jun 1 2010 1:57 PM In reply to

    do win with these trash hands when we get a "FREE" look at the flop. No one raising before the flop does not necessarily mean a big hand is not out there, or even AQ or KQ. Or even a Set was flopped.

    I would check the flop and try to see the turn for one small bet, if possible. If the next player bets and it is raised on my right, I fold. Now I have only lost my BB bet.

    I also have to consider if the player on my left who checked, that he or she, may not be hoping to check raise. The best thing that can happen is the player on my left bets, and is only called by the next player, thus I have no fear of a raise and getting trapped. If I bet out and get raised, even a position raise testing me, I am in a difficult decision making position, "to call, raise or fold?" In your case, I would hope to catch a seven, making two pair, but even then I would only check and call.

    I find checking in these situations and mucking if it gets bet or raised is better than trying to guess if I have the best hand, betting and raising to find out I don't, is money saved in the long run.

    May the flop be with you

     

  • Tue, Jun 1 2010 3:54 PM In reply to

     I think limp pots especially attract raisers after an ep lead so its hard to allocate a small range to either player. I dont mind the 3bet as obv there are very few good turn cards for you and you will take the pot relatively often, the only thing i would do differently is check the flop to pot control. Against unknowns i really wouldnt be comfortable playing a real large pot in this particular spot.

  • Tue, Jun 1 2010 6:06 PM In reply to

     Awkward one but i personally would check the flop for similar reasons... fear being one of them Stick out tongue

  • Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:01 AM In reply to

    im not sure i would have the balls to raise- yeah i think id also check the flop, but that doesnt mean that it's technically the best play

  • Wed, Jun 2 2010 2:43 PM In reply to

    check the flop for sure!

  • Tue, May 3 2011 9:26 PM In reply to

    • Alain
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on Mon, Jan 1 1900
    • Posts 2
    My remarks, for what it is worth JI do believe that 3 hands is by way not enough to get an impression on the table.  I think stating that the game is fairly tight is at best premature. Giving a free card is dangerous, I agree but that indicates that you have the best hand. With only top pair that is far from sure.  I don’t think betting here is the most profitable way to play. I agree with most players that checking/calling a small raise might be better. Especially cause you have the worst position of the lot and 4 players are involved.But OK you made the raise and got one player out. What does that mean for the range of the other players.  You put the limper on a draw. Again I think that is only part of the possibilities.  I think you are overseeing that he can be setmining.  44 or 66 are often just limped in preflop.  I agree with the thoughts on the raise of the third player.  However why should he buy position on the flop.  If he knows the button, he could have done that preflop as well showing strength preflop and taking control of the hand.  I don’t think his raise is a test here, not against 2 possible three opponents.  Furthermore your bet in early position indicates strength.  Bluffing into that, without any knowledge of how you play is very weak or maniac play.  I reckon he has hit two pair at least, maybe playing 67 suited connectors. This is a definite fold because you don’t know the player and the 2nd player called your bet.  A player that might be drawing but could have you beat already.  In reality, what do you beat ?  You probably can only win by pushing the other players to fold.  The 3-bet is for that reason under these circumstances not a good play in my opinion.Anyhow you make the 3-bet and the limper calls.  So again, he might be drawing or he is that strong that he is trying to trap…Then the K comes and you check.  You have taken initiative and now you are showing weakness.  I think I might have bet under these circumstances to turn my top pair into a bluff.  In my opinion the only way you can win the hand there. Of course with the intention to fold on a reraise or check/fold on the river

     

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